Max vs Maya – The war rages on

I want to mind dump my thoughts on the ever present war of Max vs Maya for general modeling, animation, and game development. Each has their plusses and minuses, and I’m going to quickly explore different key areas of each program in search for a clear winner in the fields of clarity, usability, and features.

History:
Max represents history in their Modifier Stack paradigm. Deformers, unwraps, and other modifiers can be stacked on top of each other and are easily viewable in a simple table. Maya on the other hand uses the node structure to represent dependencies and related modifiers for a certain object. The clear cut winner in my mind, as far as simplicity and user interface is Max. Just look at the screenshot. Maya’s highlighted arrow doesn’t even tell you where you’re going to to end up when you click it. It’s like a mystery wheel! Or you can brave the depths of the hypergraph to see your node graph. Eww.
Winner: Max

Material Editor:
Maya has a well laid out material editor called the Hypershade. Create a new blinn, assign some properties. It’s very simple to use and you can see all of your materials at a glance. One downfall is that the default way to assign a material to an object is to middle click drag the material into the scene. This is far from the best approach. I am aware of the right click -> Assign material to selection but it should be much simpler. Another problem with Maya’s material editor stems back to the original node based decision for the whole basis of the program. In order to, for example, delete a file node that is linked in your bump channel, you cannot just hit delete or unassign a texture. It seems that the quickest way is to go into the hypergraph view and delete the actual file node that was created when you assigned a texture to that slot. Messy. On the other hand, Max’s material editor uses a confusing slot system that to me seems counterintuitive. When I look at a material editor, I feel like I should be able to see all of the materials in a list. Max instead chooses to represent materials on arbitrary material slot nodes, so if you see 4 textured preview spheres, it does not mean that there are 4 materials in the scene, but that you have created pointers to four existing materials and there may be more or less. You can even clear out all of the material slots and then are forced to use the eyedropper tool to load a material into the slot. Horrible.
Winner: Maya

Interface:
Both Max and Maya have highly customizable interfaces with great context sensitive radial right click menus (or quad menus as Max calls them and marking menus as Maya calls them), customizable top menus, toolbars, custom actions or script buttons, etc etc. Both have more than adequate modeling tools, especially with Max2010′s graphite modeling suite, there’s a plethora of modeling tools available to use for any task. Max still hasn’t moved from the separate Editable Mesh / Editable Poly paradigm, which i feel is a weakness from a scripting and usability standpoint. At some point you need to ditch the backwards compatibility and put the best tools into one combined mesh interface. Max fails miserably at alphabetizing their modifier list, and that list has gotten WAY too long to keep in a linear pulldown menu. Shame on you Max. Then again, Maya’s interface looks like a bad Java app or a linux GUI… so there’s not much beauty to go around in this fight.


Winner: Tie

Scripting:
Despite what pretty much everyone else says, Maxscript seems equally as powerful as Mel so far, as I haven’t come across many things you can’t do in Maxscript, yet. That yet is a pretty big yet, and as time goes on and I develop more and more Maxscripts, I might need to revisit this section, possibly with a deep hatred for Maxscript. One thing to point out is that all of Maya’s commands are completely written in MEL and are available to browse, so ANYTHING can be scripted in Maya. Plus the addition of Python seems pretty huge for both Max and Maya, so there’s also no clear winner in this category.
Winner: Tie

Other:
Maya is cross platform. This is a huge plus for Maya that pretty much pushes it into the ‘extreme win’ category for me and thousands of other Linux and Mac users. Even though Autodesk owns both, I can say with reasonable confidence that Max will NEVER be ported to any other platforms. Also, the community is huge for both Max and Maya, and fanboys will continue to strangle each other over their favorite DCC app. One thing I would love to see to unify Max and Maya (come on Autodesk!) would be to help ease the pain of switching between Maya and Max. This could be helped by combining the documentation in a way that search terms for one app’s features will show up in the equivalent function of the other app. For example, a search for merge vertices will bring you to the editable poly/mesh docs for Max and show you the Max equivalent weld verts command. This type of guide already exists for Maxscript/MEL, located here.

Final Verdict:

Use whichever one you are more comfortable. Hey, they both import silently into Unity, so what’s not to love? It’s not worth the pain of switching just because your friend thinks the other app is better. If you join a company that is strictly Max and you’re a Maya person, take the time to learn the other app. It’s not that bad, really. Or if you want to avoid the Autodesk monolith, just use Softimage’s XSI… oh wait. *Sad*

Thoughts?
So I’m not exactly the authority on either Maya or Max, so feel free to share your opinions in the comments section. Also, you may have noticed that I didn’t weigh in on UV tools, the quality of the individual modeling tools, and many other aspects of each program, either due to laziness or a lack of in-depth familiarity with that aspect. Weigh in!

11 Comments

  1. Uhh… You must be confused. Neither is a good DCC app. Final Verdict: Cinema4D ftw!

  2. Heh, I was going to mention Cinema4D, Yilmaz, but then I realized the bickering mostly consists between Max and Maya users, with the users of Cheetah/Modo/Rhino/C4D/Blender silently watching and laughing.

  3. Nice comparison. My big sticking point:

    I may be wrong about this since I was told, by someone else, that Max doesn't have it (never checked), but the marking menus in Maya make a huge difference. They can speed up ones workflow by 2 or 3 times, if you make good ones. An old instructor of mine would fly through things using his marking menus, making selections before OpenGL even had time to render the things in the viewport! If Max does have these, then I recind my comment, but otherwise Maya is still the winner in my book because of them.

  4. Taniith,

    Yeah Maya calls them marking menus (http://www.digitalcheese.ca/images/MayaHotbox1.jpg) and Max calls them quad menus (http://garage.gaspowered.com/files/universityImages/4_215.jpg)

    Both are fully customizable with your own scripts/layouts and are context sensitive. :)

  5. Oh, Taniith = Elliot. The world makes much more sense now.

  6. Oh, well never mind then. That's what I get for trusting people to know what they are talking about, heh.

  7. Hey, let's not forget animating in Footsteps mode! Just kidding, animation in max always seemed pretty clunky to me. Actually, the keyframe system in maya drives me crazy too. I always long for after effects.

  8. Yeah, heh, footsteps mode. That is actually quite an interesting idea that they threw into character studio. To be fair, it has been around forever (integrated back in Max 4) and was pretty cool when I first saw it, without having to actually use it. Though, it isn't useful at all for walk-in-place cycles and it overwrites any manually keyframed changes every time you resync your footstep animation and is really only useful as a baseline to start a very basic animation with translation baked in.

  9. I have to say the BEST 3d package IMO is Softimage. Not Max or Maya.Let me explain a little; Granted, I have only been using Max off and on for a few months without aggressively learning it. So, Max may have some advantages that I am not aware of. I do think Max does handle modeling better than Maya except for the fact the Max does not have an insert edge loop tool.(chamfer doesn't count) I do like that Max is in Z up space like Unreal. (of course Unreal and Max were made for each other.)
    Here is a weird part of the story…When I started learning, I simultaneously started with Max and Maya and I gravitated toward Maya. Maya was easier for me to comprehend at the beginning. With all that said…I was up and running on softimage pretty fast. Softimage also has more to offer. It comes with a character setup solution. Attribute Transfer solution. OpenGL rendering, builtin compositor. Paritcles in Softimage are soooo much easier to use than in Maya.
    I am sticking with Softimage for now.
    I must say that Max does have its positive aspects. I try to have an open mind. If a piece of software can serve me better. I'll learn it.

  10. Yilmaz cracks me up.

    I've been a Maya man for the past 10 years. Max doesn't seem to have as much versatility. I could be wrong. Having said that Maya lacks what ZBrush and MudBox can do.

    Other DCC apps: I love ZBrush. XSI looks very cool but I haven't used it yet. If Modo becomes a full feature DCC application I would be very happy. C4D has it's cool features but seems lacking in standard features.

    For now I'm staying with Maya 2010.

  11. Another Max vs Maya comparison. I believe Maya 2010 and beyond include fluids as a standard feature.

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